Why did....

[Fast Eddie]

Hip Hops Quality fall off but its popularity grow? i have theories but i want to hear what you guys and gals think?

really around 97 id say the music started really sloping down IMO

[tomciz]

they figured out they can still make money even if the music is terrible so i guess they ran with it....why try hard on something you can half ass and get the same amount of money.

[Cochise™]

Everything has to evolve or it will eventually die. I useto make fun of older dudes in the 90's when they would tell me how the 80's were better and we who loved the 90's are now doing the same. If you really look out there are some quality tracks out right now. So many rappers from that era are sick as hell, but they never evolved, never cared to try something new. I am sure alot of ultra cool super hip people in this board can tell me about underground acts with ultra cool names like Mad Science and Filtered Blues but the fact is these acts are for people who like the redundant. How so? Because every single one of their songs sounds exactly like the last. Some of these artist feel as though that since their lyrics have "substance" they should not step out of the box and make different sounds and try on different flows such as Kanye, Lupe, Common, Jay-Z and even T.I. and T-Pain.

Damn, didn't really want to run this long to make a point but fuck it. I enjoy the occasional "thoughtful" MC, but I have to like the song. I'm not going to force my self to listen to a song just because it has a good message. I am sure there are a few songs that have great messages from Donny & Marie, but I will not be lining up to purchase the garbage anytime soon. Hip-Hop has evolved, and if you don't like it, do what I do, don't listen. Find what you like, and actually buy it. The same people talking shit about the current state of music are the same ones downloading faster than the speed of light. By not buying what you enjoy, it ensures that the artist will be one CD short of not making another record. Because at the end of the day, if it don't make dollars, it don't make sense.

[Cochise™]

Hip Hops Quality fall off but its popularity grow? i have theories but i want to hear what you guys and gals think?

really around 97 id say the music started really sloping down IMO

U mentioned something about theories?

[Fast Eddie]

[quote="Carson Shephard":3e919ftw]Hip Hops Quality fall off but its popularity grow? i have theories but i want to hear what you guys and gals think?

really around 97 id say the music started really sloping down IMO

U mentioned something about theories?[/quote:3e919ftw]
You know i really am a firm believer that hip hop over grew itself. I think that it begin to become regurgitated and generic. I dont agree with you however about not being into the real lyricist shit. To me thats what hip hop is all about it was made to express ones hardships and experiences through song. You can make all the great beats in the world but when it comes down to it if theres no feeling behind it your just another sheep bopping your head to a new piece of marketing. I think alot start declining after biggie and tupac died. i feel that they were the last true underground style writers and rappers. I think the general media and record labels killed it just like they do everything else, beat it to death, shoving it in your face until it loses its luster and on to the next. I mean rock is the same fucking way for the most part its just crap , every once and a while a band comes along that will make waves but its not like the 60's or 70's when there was a new amazing original act every month or so. So i have lost my faith in hip hop and leave it on the people like immortal Technique to keep true to the hip hop message, "Scratching the Surface of Mainstream with The Underground Story" just my .02

[Cochise™]

LMAO!!!! You know a guy named Immortal Technique? LMAO!!!! I KNEW IT!!!!

[Cochise™]

Anyway, I don't listen to garbage period.<---Seems redundant to add an actual period right? Anyway, I listen to good music. Wether it be underground or not, it must be good. Music was invented to entertain the masses. And yes, as it evolved it also was a way to show writing skill and dare I say Technique and also put out a message of importance to the writer. But above all, it must be good. I don't care how sick Cannibus is/was you could not force me to sit thru one of his albums just because he is sick with the words, the song has to be good period.

And more likely then not, if the song has good lyrics, beat, message, story, etc. if the song fires on all cylinders, then it means there is some actual feeling that took place to create the song. Time, dedication and love of craft takes place to write such classics as Ready To Die, Reasonable Doubt, Illmatic, The Black Album and on and on...... So I say that people should do like me and choose to bop your head to actually good well written music. Because there are two extremes out there, one: Bull shit mainstream rappers who have no substance but get by with making catchy hooks and "good beats." Two: Bull shit underground rappers that think a song does not need to be entertaining simply because they have a message on the current taste of bean pie. I choose good music, somewhere in the middle of that. Because people like Lil Wayne sell a rediculous ammount of records the underground scene don't respect his skill, listen to homies album, he will def. shit on most without a pen. And because Lupe doesn't sell like Lil Wayne he don't get the props he deserves. It's a double edge sword, why choose one or the other?

[Fast Eddie]

LMAO!!!! You know a guy named Immortal Technique? LMAO!!!! I KNEW IT!!!!
i do not understand you laughter here i simply made an example of a popular lyricist who has made great songs in true hip hop fashion

[Cochise™]

I laugh because I previously said this: "I am sure alot of ultra cool super hip people in this board can tell me about underground acts with ultra cool names like Mad Science and Filtered Blues" And then you come out with Immortal Technique. lol I just think it's funny.

[Fast Eddie]

I laugh because I previously said this: "I am sure alot of ultra cool super hip people in this board can tell me about underground acts with ultra cool names like Mad Science and Filtered Blues" And then you come out with Immortal Technique. lol I just think it's funny.
but why do u say ultra cool hip people, lol u just like arguing. like i said i mentioned him so whoever read this could relate to what i was trying to say cause he is by far the most popular underground rapper. Check out Sole. Hes nasty but you prob wont like him. Cause hes super hipster ultra cool :cheesygrin:
[youtube:enghrfy3]CGnXL0lX44w[/youtube:enghrfy3]
I've been so many places
In my life and time
Yes, I've sung a lot of songs
I've made some bad rhymes

Top of the world
Yet I aint never left my head to turn and look back
Every second page is anthem
Perfected writ mood
In the perfect world I set the perfect mood
And in perverted abodes, I claim rogue
Enflame clothes and sing songs of underdepression love
Chemical imbalanceship, paranoia
My scientist fiction, I kick space raps that's down to Earth and
The kids that get dubs are the only ones that wanna listen
My words are my world, believe it or not they mean a lot to some
Can't say that I'm ahead of time, I fear that my time will never come
Can't exist outside the bottle, you'll crack under pressure
No aggression, why they've got to learn,
if they don't things won't get any better
Listenin' to God burn objects of animal animating
in a still life picture of the La Brea tar pit
Walking the surface of my red carpet
These are distress signals spanning you and I
Inversatile if anyone here's a soul survivor of a dying civilization
A galaxy called integrity (In that belt called creativity)
But it's not a black corpse, snuffed by a cold world, I keep warm
By burning dead bodies smelling the beats and never cess
So, um, you can walk the streets until the building no longer remains
My people are my people, comrades, and allies, the lines are drawn
This is my gold tank, everywhere I go don't belong
I'm known by most, hated by many, endured by the rest
Police in dead skin, I'm so East,
well then why did I end up on the West???
Don't wanna sacrifice my cadence,
and sentence structure design of my rhymes, etc.
ANTICON, hip-hop music for the advancement of mankind
More than an egomanical sarcastic label for a movement
So when the chain still smells
like a million dead corpses and kerosene marching
To burn down the walls of the village and storm the castle,
run up the damsels
Take 'em to the river, now we can spawn
This aint premillenium tension, it's the result of too much free time,
On dusty fingers, and it'll be a wonderful ride
A million bleeding hearts composing prose in blood
To live and die a thousand times

(Chorus)

Ever been to Hell?
This is a black-and-white photo album outlines in increments
The infrastructure is dead
Instructed look at the scene of the massacre askin' for forgiveness,
no beggin'
No degrading anybody, everybody's in the alleyway for the Sole cast
??? watch me rip it and mark my words in white chalk
Gawking at reflections walking in insurrections getting bad ones
This isn't spoken word, it's the reinvention of Sugar Hill
Right now, your girl is transfixed upon my hips
And this is Sole, and we're makin love right now,
so I don't need to take her to the hotel
This is a love song, I pass out roses with the thorns in my flesh
It's like these are groupies, I'm a mammal,
my whole life's a freestyle set
The Earth's an orb in the sky, so nothing gets to my head
The universe is my A&R, by the time I fall off, I'll probably dead
It's been a long time since those mountain pipe dreams were stuffed in snow
Now my culture's pierced, by the greatest accountance I've ever known
It's nothing personal, hip-hop design has gotten vain,
So emcees I aint feeling you, if I don't know your real name
Hip-hop aint dead, the industry's just wack,
indie hip-hop's a demo fair
Keep your sights set
What do you wanna move, rappers, minds or posteriors?
I'm still a fan, corporate insider, and brain nigga
It's springtime we're the centaurs and people in grass skirts
This is the verge, the melting point
When your favorite emcees can't be lazy anymore
This is psychopath, this is psych rap
With violence, violence
My life is stranded on an island with no food
and beautiful women feeding my ego or what little is left
No, this is gangsta rap and my shirt's unbuttoned
We're stealing moments of brilliance in the limelights
choppin' up keys to break the floodgates
Maybe this is instrumental hip-hop and I don't know when to shut up
Or maybe this is turntable music,
scratch the I's and I'll scratch yours
Or what if this is honest music, and I mean every other word I say
Don't take anything literal, out-of-context,
just take it for what it is
If you want labels, we can divide, I'll still be strong
Bottom line it's all art (This is a good and a bad song)



[youtube:enghrfy3]rN5fnrVeVVQ[/youtube:enghrfy3]

[Cochise™]

Dude, it's not that he's a "hipsters" it's that the song is horrible. lol Seriously, his flow is stupid. So stupid that I did not to listen to the substance of the lyrics. Do you honestly think these people want to be "underground"? lol Come on man, they are underground cause don't nobody want them up here. lol

[Cochise™]

Just heard the other song. I am sorry dude, but seriously? Seriously? This is what you gonna come at me with? This is the perfect example of the two extremes I talked about. This guy should not be recording anything. This is just as criminal as any Ying Yang twins song, it's just on the other side of the spectrum. There is no other way for me to put it other than it really, really sux. lol

[Fast Eddie]

u are a jaded old man my friend, i love ya but your ear is broken

[Cochise™]

Dude, not jaded at all. Show me a good song and I will agree, show me a horrible song and I will disagree. Simple, very simple. That guy has no delivery whats so ever dude. The flow is horrendus. Here's an "underground" cat with delivery man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeE4nXD-7_g

[Fast Eddie]

Dude, not jaded at all. Show me a good song and I will agree, show me a horrible song and I will disagree. Simple, very simple. That guy has no delivery whats so ever dude. The flow is horrendus. Here's an "underground" cat with delivery man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeE4nXD-7_g
i know who Doom is my boy sent me some of his shit a while back very good, i just feel that you cant appreciate Sole because he doesnt flow the typical way EVERY other rapper does, on the same kinda beat, he experiments and takes risks something alot of your current day proclaimed hip hop stars dont do. maybe u dont like him cause he ait hood or "ill" i dunno but we shall agree to disagree.

[Cochise™]

Shit man, I am all for original deliveries and flows, that niggas is weak though. It ain't got shit to do with being hood. His flow is wack, simple. I know u want to think he's original for sounding off beat and original flow, but it sounds bad dude. It sounds very ammature. He does not take the craft serious, he takes his words too serious to even think about being a true MC.

[Fast Eddie]

Shit man, I am all for original deliveries and flows, that niggas is weak though. It ain't got shit to do with being hood. His flow is wack, simple. I know u want to think he's original for sounding off beat and original flow, but it sounds bad dude. It sounds very ammature. He does not take the craft serious, he takes his words too serious to even think about being a true MC.
LOLZ

[Cochise™]

And how come you got more lil white headphones than me? That's fucked up son! lol

[Fast Eddie]

And how come you got more lil white headphones than me? That's fucked up son! lol
ur still a newb kid.....

[tomciz]

i really like immortal technique but all his songs kinda sound alike...being political is cool once in awhile but all this dude is doing is trying to be the michael moore of rap it kinda gets on my nerves

[Fast Eddie]

i really like immortal technique but all his songs kinda sound alike...being political is cool once in awhile but all this dude is doing is trying to be the michael moore of rap it kinda gets on my nerves
i can see how some say that but if u think about it all the main stream raps about is bitches rides and hennesy

[tomciz]

http://gto7.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/michael-moore-pizza.jpg

[Fast Eddie]

http://gto7.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/michael-moore-pizza.jpg
btw michael moore sucks

[Cochise™]

i really like immortal technique but all his songs kinda sound alike...being political is cool once in awhile but all this dude is doing is trying to be the michael moore of rap it kinda gets on my nerves

That is exactly what I said. They all sound alike from one to the other. Beat, flow, and delivery. And I have never even heard anything by Immortal. I am sure he is a sick lyricist as many underground artist are, but don't complain, as most underground artist do, that the record industry is trying to keep people like you down. No nigga, it's just that ur music is repetative and boring. Do something dif.

Yo Tom, honestly, what do u think of the kid eddy posted "Sole" like the fish not the inner self. lol

[Cochise™]

i really like immortal technique but all his songs kinda sound alike...being political is cool once in awhile but all this dude is doing is trying to be the michael moore of rap it kinda gets on my nerves
i can see how some say that but if u think about it all the main stream raps about is bitches rides and hennesy

Not true wut so ever. You sound like a guy who listens to hip-hop stations and purpopsely leaves the bad songs on to make a point that hip-hop sucks. Why torture your self? Change the dial. lol

[tomciz]

never heard of him but ill start seeing what he's about

[Fast Eddie]

i really like immortal technique but all his songs kinda sound alike...being political is cool once in awhile but all this dude is doing is trying to be the michael moore of rap it kinda gets on my nerves

That is exactly what I said. They all sound alike from one to the other. Beat, flow, and delivery. And I have never even heard anything by Immortal. I am sure he is a sick lyricist as many underground artist are, but don't complain, as most underground artist do, that the record industry is trying to keep people like you down. No nigga, it's just that ur music is repetative and boring. Do something dif.

Yo Tom, honestly, what do u think of the kid eddy posted "Sole" like the fish not the inner self. loli dont think Technique thinks the label is trying to keep them down i think he is smarter by saying fuck them , start my own label and make money off of my shit by myself instead of making something poppy and paying hallf your earnings to the corporate side

[Cochise™]

never heard of him but ill start seeing what he's about

It's posted on page one of this thread, please take a look and give an honest opinion.

[Fast Eddie]

[quote=tomciz]i really like immortal technique but all his songs kinda sound alike...being political is cool once in awhile but all this dude is doing is trying to be the michael moore of rap it kinda gets on my nerves
i can see how some say that but if u think about it all the main stream raps about is bitches rides and hennesy

Not true wut so ever. You sound like a guy who listens to hip-hop stations and purpopsely leaves the bad songs on to make a point that hip-hop sucks. Why torture your self? Change the dial. lol[/quote:26r9qix9]
rightttttttttttttttttttttttt. im the guy who doesnt turn them on at all bro. cause its all been said before , i guess i just appreciate the writing more than the beat that the girls shake there shit at. to me its an art , and obv. you do not appreciate originality

[tomciz]

hes not awful....his delivery is fucked up cause hes trying to fit to many syllables before he gets to his rhyme....his lyrics are better then alot of other newer people out there....ie hes not rhyming cat and bat and shit thats mad obvious....thats what i look for in a good rapper....if i cant even understand how he's rhyming shit together then i know im onto something...i liked the 2nd song you posted more then the first one...i guess compared to todays standards he's one of the better ones but im not crazy about him

[Cochise™]

i dont think Technique thinks the label is trying to keep them down i think he is smarter by saying fuck them , start my own label and make money off of my shit by myself instead of making something poppy and paying hallf your earnings to the corporate side

I can go on with u for days dude, but honestly, he ain't gonna make shit on his own label. He's better off signing a major label deal, assuming someone wants him. Who cares how much corporate gets as long as ur making much more than u were before. My wife works in the industry so please believe me, these people are paid very well even when the big bad corporate machine takes a huge chunk.

[Cochise™]

rightttttttttttttttttttttttt. im the guy who doesnt turn them on at all bro. cause its all been said before , i guess i just appreciate the writing more than the beat that the girls shake there shit at. to me its an art , and obv. you do not appreciate originality

Bro, thats what I have been trying to tell you. I love originality. This is why I barely listen to the radio, but there are good tracks out there made by rappers who don't have names like Serindipity's Coincidence or Mel Tha Gawd. Because that is just as bad as the bad on the stations. Go cop you a Lupe album thun.

[Cochise™]

hes not awful

He ain't good either. Shit, I'm sure I can drive with both feet on the steering wheel but that don't mean it's to be done.

[Fast Eddie]

[quote="Carson Shephard":3qxgkqp3]i dont think Technique thinks the label is trying to keep them down i think he is smarter by saying fuck them , start my own label and make money off of my shit by myself instead of making something poppy and paying hallf your earnings to the corporate side

I can go on with u for days dude, but honestly, he ain't gonna make shit on his own label. He's better off signing a major label deal, assuming someone wants him. Who cares how much corporate gets as long as ur making much more than u were before. My wife works in the industry so please believe me, these people are paid very well even when the big bad corporate machine takes a huge chunk.[/quote:3qxgkqp3]what your not getting is it sometimes isnt about making a major record label deal and being a star

[Cochise™]

what your not getting is it sometimes isnt about making a major record label deal and being a star

True indeed, but the reality is that if you want to get your message accross to more than 10 kids drinking 40's and smoking blunts in mom's basement you have to go major. Might not be right, but it sure is true.

[Cochise™]

And ur the one who brought up money anyway. lol

[Fast Eddie]

And ur the one who brought up money anyway. lol
yup i know but its what it all stems to most of the time i just think i take a liking to the ones more for the art than the buck


either way its been a healthy topic discussion

[RAYVERonXTC]

Hip Hop hasnt been the same since Vanilla Ice.

[tomciz]

ice ice baby :party:

[Skylab]

I was never really into hiphop ever so.. yeah. hi..